Hocd - These thoughts make me believe that's what I want

I forgot to add, that it feels like real arousal and that my heart's beating faster, but I feel that I really don't like it or want it

Hi,

I am so sorry you are feeling so much distress regarding this. I suspect you are suffering from symptoms of HOCD (that's not an official diagnosis, as I'm not in a position to evaluate and diagnose you). Based on what you describe, it sounds like you are a straight female who has developed some very troubling obsessive thoughts. And, in response, you have begun to engage in compulsive behaviors (e.g. masturbating while you repeat certain phrases, and "practicing" by looking at photos).

To answer your questions towards the end of your post, yes, HOCD can cause those types of urges and play tricks on your mind. Many people who suffer from HOCD have described similar experiences, and like you, find them very confusing and distressing.

As for your last statement about "real arousal" - there's a lot of overlap between arousal and anxiety - sweaty palms, racing heart, butterflies. However, the primary difference is that with genuine arousal, there's usually a pleasurable, exciting aspect to it, and with HOCD anxiety, it's distressing and not truly pleasurable at all. I hope that makes sense.

If this is causing significant anxiety and consuming a lot of your time, I recommend that you have an evaluation by a mental health professional - preferably someone who either specializes in treating OCD or who at least has a lot of experience treating it. Cognitive behavioral therapy is one of the best treatments for anxiety disorders, including OCD. This type of therapy helps you learn to manage and, in some cases, eventually overcome these obsessive thoughts and compulsive behaviors.

I hope this helps!

Sorry that I'm posting again, but I have to get something off my mind. I told you about the most terrible thought in the last post... I wanted to know how I feel when I look at a good looking women. She wore provocative lingerie and slept with a men and my brain focused on her, and it said: "it would be great or the best to sleep with her because she looks sexy and come on give up!, give it a try."" I hate those thoughts so much and in that moment I responded: No, I don't want. But then it said that again and again and the impulses became stronger so that I had to give up and I said: okay I want to find out if thats me or my mind and suddenly I was convinced and felt like it would be great. I didn't imagine something but just looked at her repeating the phrase Oh how great it would be... blablabla and the phrase (that I posted above) and those impulses are so strong that I have to masturbate, not because I'm really turned on, I masturbate as well when I'm highly stressed and it felt like a terrible relieve (that was telling me that I repress it) and I lost control and I got nervous. Therefore my question is:
- Is it possible that my mind is trying to convince me and the more I doubt and try to find an answer and say: okay, then I let it flow and look what happen, the more I feel like I repress it?
- How do I know if i repress those feelings... because somethimes it feels like it and my mind says it to me... Or is it only the hocd thought that tries to convince me and make me feel like I'm in denial? Because afterwards when the thoughts are gone I ask myself: That's disgusting, why did I feel this way before?

I'm not quite sure I followed what you are describing, but HOCD does essentially cause your mind to play all sorts of tricks on you. Impulses and urges are very common.

Again, I do think you would benefit from working with a therapist regarding these issues. Cognitive behavioral therapy is considered one of the best types of treatment for OCD symptoms and anxiety disorders in general. A skilled therapist will help you learn to manage these thoughts so that they don't continue to consume you or constantly make you feel anxious.

First, I'm glad you went to a therapist, although I am confused: Is the therapist truly unable to help you (i.e., did she say that she isn't competent to treat you), or are you assuming she is incompetent? Anyone who has the skills and knowledge to treat OCD effectively (and not all therapist do, as it is a very challenging disorder that requires some expertise to treat), can treat HOCD. HOCD is just one form of OCD - the treatment is essentially the same regardless of the focus of the obsessions.

You stated: "I just don't want those feelings and don't want women." I think if you were truly gay, you'd be saying something different. Could you be repressing your true sexual orientation? Well, it is possible, but I don't think that is the case. But I absolutely think you need to continue working with a therapist (if not this one, then someone else) to sort through all of this. I cannot provide therapy via this website.

You mentioned that "my mind forces me to imagine touching their breasts or kissing them!" - Unwanted urges to do something is a common part of OCD, so that may be what you are experiencing.

As for feeling "jealous" that a woman on TV says she is married or has a boyfriend - I think what you really mean is that you are envious - and that is perfectly normal for someone who longs to be in a relationship but isn't. So, I wouldn't read too much into that (I know, easier said than done!).

I think if you were truly gay, you wouldn't find these thoughts to be horrible or repulsive. It's normal with HOCD for thoughts that say things like "Come on, you know you want it", etc. But, that doesn't mean you really do.

Again, I think you need to work with a therapist who knows how to treat OCD (and I recommend finding one who uses CBT - cognitive behavioral therapy). If this therapist has no experience treating OCD, then I do suggest you find one who does. You may have to do some searching and interview a few therapists - you might also look into finding a therapist online with whom you can work via phone or Skype. I think face to face is best, but I also think it's important to find someone who knows what they are doing.

Thank you for your reply :-)She said that she knows what ocd is, but she hasn't had such a case before; therefore she doesn't know how to help me and said that I just don't have to repress feelings... She stated that it would be the best to go into a hospital where I should stay for a month or so. I'm now going to find another therapist who has more knowledge about hocd. The following question just interests me: Why do you think it is possible that i could repress feelings? People who repress feelings have a reason or? I do not have a specific reason for repressing. I just feel really uncomfortable having those feelings sometimes I see an attractive women (in swimsuit for example or a women stripping) and getting those urges that it would be the greatest or most exciting. But I o not have a reason like repressing for religion or family. That's not the case. And I thought most homo oder bisexuals repress because of their family or so. Is it normal not to become similiar feelings when I look at an attractive men. There are urges but not so strong (but they're feeling good by looking at men). Sometimes I do not feel anything (when a men is stripping for example). But I recognise his face and if he's good looking or cute.
I thought that all of us are responding when someone is good looking or sexy (no matter who they are and which gender they prefer). That it's normal for a women to react when another women is sexy (not a sexual wish but just to think: wow, this is sexy and so on). I suppose a part of your text you have written has not been send, i can read >you mentioned the...< and the end of your text isnt there. what did you want to say? :-)

I understand what you're coming from. I do have the same problem. Just accept the possibilities that you might be lesbian or bisexual even thought in your heart you only attracted to men. I did accept the possibilities (I might be a lesbian, but who cares) because I know in my heart I was straight. I feel less anxious than before. Don't browse about HOCD or see other forum about HOCD. No one know inside you except you. The uncomfortable I have when I see girls' body is not the attraction but rather the envy of desire to have their bodies. Start appreciate more about yourself, do search for a therapist that specialize not only OCD but other form of OCD. But meanwhile, distraction yourself by exercising and mediating, and put your focus on other things. Recovery is a long process. Do try to expose yourself to the fears, I did when I was calm and I didn't feel any arousal or attraction but rather call her pretty girl nothing more. I am in the right track of recovering. I hope you overcome this illness.

Those are not real feelings. You allow to have anxious control you. Stop thinking and avoid the opposite sex until the attraction came back and try approach to same-sex like give a hug or chill with them once the anxiety is decreased. I would also suggest once you got a response from Dr. Lane, take a break from browsing the Internet that is related to OCD, HOCD, latent homosexuality and homosexuality (like coming out the closet.) because it'll make the thought and anxiety stronger. Only speak to the therapist about the issue. I once convicted that I was gay until I find out I wasn't because I wasn't attracted to women or interested date them. The different between real feeling and anxiety feeling HOCD is that the real feeling you feel comfortable and right and you're not ashamed to show your love where the anxiety feeling, you become anxious, depressed and unable to sleep and you need to reassure yourself. Be confidence, everyone had thoughts and dreams about same sex. I also once thought that I had cancer and I was going to die until find out I didn't have cancer. Try to write to a journal about the process. I still have the unwanted l thought but I won't allow it to ruin my life. Don't expect anything when it comes to find a man or be in relationship. The most unexpected is what the mind doesn't know expect the heart. HOCD is like a career, we have thoughts of wanted to become something until you try and realize it not something you wanted to do. It is a long process but don't look back. A lot of people do have OCD and HOCD and they successfully overcome it. Now it will be my last post and I will focus on recovering.

I'm not sure what you mean by "pain", although I assume you mean emotional pain / distress.

Everything you describe continues to strongly suggest HOCD, in my opinion. I highly doubt the thoughts and feelings you are experiencing are due to repressing any true homosexual desires, so I encourage you to not entertain that idea. You can analyze this until the cows come home, but it's not going to help you. And I also strongly encourage you to distract yourself whenever you feel the urge to test - testing just reinforces the OCD cycle.

I also need to comment on the therapist's suggestion that you be hospitalized for a month. Obviously, I wasn't part of that conversation, but hospitalization for OCD (or "repressed homosexual desires, as she seemed to suggest based on your post) would not only not be helpful, it would be highly unusual. In all my years in this field, I've never heard of nor seen anyone hospitalized for OCD - unless their OCD is so severe that they are unable to function at all or they are suicidal in addition to battling (or because of) OCD.

I do encourage you to continue looking for a therapist. Knowing about OCD is far different than knowing how to treat it effectively, and I don't think most therapists know how to treat OCD - it's a very challenging and complex disorder. BUT, any therapist who knows how to treat OCD should be able to treat HOCD, even if they've never dealt with someone with this particular form of OCD.

(In the future, if you have a new post, please start a new thread rather than posting in the middle of this thread.)

I'm sorry, but I really am not sure what you are asking. I had a very difficult time following what you wrote. It does sound like you are analyzing everything to death - which is not uncommon with OCD - but it's not helping you.

Per your questions:

-"Do I have to be aroused or do I have to find it thrilling when there is a good-looking men in tv?"

No. In fact, getting aroused all the time just by seeing someone good-looking on TV would be unusual. You can find someone attractive and not automatically get aroused.

-"Is it NOT normal to get such feelings by looking at hot men like those i described? That it would be normal to get such feelings first when beeing in a relationship?"

I'm sorry, but I really have no idea what you are trying to ask - but, suffice it to say you are grasping here and over-analyzing.

-"Why is it easier to think that a women is sexy or that sth. sexual would be more thrilling even though I dont want that and suffer?"

That is likely just another symptom of HOCD - another trick your mind is playing on you.

"Why does it feel like a weird "relieve"feeling when I say: okay i let the feelings be there and see"?

Well, actually this is a good thing - when you do this you're not fighting or resisting the so-called feeling (I say so-called because I suspect the feeling is not genuine, but rather your mind trying to convince you that it is - typical of HOCD.)

"Does hocd mean that your brain is tricking you and creates feeling of excitement even though you don't want to be excited or aroused?"

Yes, that is one aspect of how HOCD often works.

One of the forms of OCD obsessions is the frequent "urge" to do something - even though you don't want to do it. So, the fact that you feel like you have to masturbate is likely another form of the HOCD.

As for repressing your desires. I think it is unlikely that you are "repressing" anything - I've already said that, so I am not going to attempt to answer a question about something that I don't believe applies to you, okay?

Again, everything you describe is pretty typical with HOCD. Once you find a therapist to work with, he or she can help you learn to manage these thoughts, urges, and "feelings" that are causing you so much distress.

Your questions don't annoy me at all; unfortunately, sometimes I'm not sure what you are trying to ask. I am glad that you are finding something helpful in my responses and that you are starting to feel calmer and more relaxed.

Hello, I wanted to tell you that I'm making progess. I'm still searching for a good therapist, but it's not easy. There are a lot of good days when I'm saying that i know what i want and that I'm definetly not a lesbian. But there are bad days as well. Today is such a bad day and I'm feeling terrible... That's why I'm writing to you. But I know that I have to ignore the feelings and thoughts coming into my head. It interests me, what real homosexual people fear.
-Why do they repress? Are there homosexual people in the world getting feeings like desire or longing for the same-sex and then getting a huge panic attack or are they hurt because of the feeling itself?
I read a story about two women loving each other and I immediately got the feeling of being excited or even aroused?! (i don't know) and again it felt like i coulnd't resist while i had to imagine being that women. But again i felt terrible and didn't want to feel that way.
It's like all the times I read or hear something, see something...
-Or do they enjoy the feeling itself first and then repress it because they're afraid of what their family could say (for example)?
- How can an ilness like hocd create such a strong feeling that feels like a desire? Like it would be so great. I know i asked you before but I can't understand how this can be possible. Everytime I think it's over, i feel forced to remember the moment I was watching the scene where a men and a women were having sex and i felt like i was finally allowing my feelings and that it was exciting and i want to be the guy... And everytime I remember this, I feel horrible because it felt so real. Is this really possible? (I'm afraid that I'm homosexual or bisexual and can't accept those feelings and repress them automatically and feel terrible.)
Deep in my heart I know that I can't be a lesbian because when I think of women I only see them as friends or sisters. It's alien for me to see them as lovers. And when I think of guys I see them as potential lovers. Is this the proof that I can't be bisexual or whatever?

I think I got it right now. I understand why people supress: They don't suffer because of the feeling itself, but rather feel insecure and supress only because of their family, religion, etc. And therefore feeling bad and supress. And People with hocd get fake feelings because of their mind tricking them. And they're anxious and suffer because of the feeling itself.
But I'm so afraid that I'm too stubborn to accept and there's only my will blocking my true feelings... I'd hate it. When my will is broken then it feels like finally allowing and in the situation good or exciting... It's terrible... is this the proof to be homosexual? That there's only my stubborn will in my way and I don't want it but when don't defend and allowing.. then i want it?... Oh my god this is horrible. Each time I get a feeling I press it away automatically and find it horrible the way i felt. Maybe because I'm afraid or just don't want? Maybe there's something deep inside me knowing that it's wrong? And that's why I'm blocking?
Is there a possibility to not wanting those feelings and rejecting them when they come?.. Does it sound to you that I'm rejecting feelings when they come? because I reject them in my mind before they come and not allowing them? I'M SO AFRAID BECAUSE OF THIS! Please help me.

I have nothing more to say that will be helpful to you. I hope you are able to work with a therapist soon. I sincerely wish you the best.

Hello Dr. Lane, I haven't posted here for a long time. I'm getting help. The therapist is really nice and helped me a lot so far. She told me about ocd and how i will overcome it. She also gave me an advice what I should do when there is a thought or a feeling. And i really have to say that it has become a lot better. There are days when I barely think about it and feel quite confident, but there are days I don't feel good and then it's hard for me to trust myself. But that's the only way I can beat this illness...
Now I'm scared that I'm stuck... That it won't become better and that I'll always have it that way: I mean some days are good but the others. Just as today. I was crying because I got a feeling again and couldn't trust myself anymore.
We're working on this thoughts and feelings right now. But I don't understand how these feelings are conjured by ocd... I just don't get it. It feels so terrible real. And I'm totally hurt by those feelings.
Do you know how this can be?
The feelings like this: I see a women and on bad days when I start to see a women ocd automatically rushes in and creates something in my chest. Like a wanting feeling and also it really (it's scary for me) FEELS like it would be the best to be with this women. Why does it really feel like that? It's not simply a thought without anything. It's a feeling and that scares the shit out of me. And I'm trying to defend it... But i know i have to allow it and say: That doesn't matter, I can trust myself, but in that moment I just CAN'T trust myself anymore... Because I think if I allow that feeling or thoughts I accept something I'm not. Recently I saw a young men and I found he looked handsome and those feelings are so good. They let me calm down and make me feel fine, comfortable and like my sorrow has been taken away so easily. Hope you can help me with that. Thank you.

Hi Question,

I'm really glad you're working with a therapist and that it's been helpful. At this point, I encourage you to 1) discuss these things with your therapist, and 2) apply the advice / techniques she's already given you regarding how to handle troubling thoughts or feelings. You said it's been helpful, so please keep doing what's working. And if it doesn't seem to work for these particular issues, then the two of you together can figure out why, and what to do.

I really prefer that readers discuss issues with their therapist once they are in treatment, rather than have me intervene and offer advice. Your therapist is the best person to advise and guide you with this as she knows you and also knows the work you've been doing in therapy.

I discussed the "feelings" with my therapist... and unfortunately she made it worse, because she said that I might have homosexual fantasies. And since that time my ocd has become unbearable.. I constantly get urges when I see women... I can't stand those "feelings" anymore. They make me so sick. I'm crying right now and I don't know what to do anymore. I want to stop it but I feel powerless... Maybe she misunderstood me because I said: I get a feeling like I want to sleep with a women or get feelings of excitement. And I test myself again. I imagine sex with a women and my reaction to it. If I get a negative or neutral reaction I'm glad and pleased. And If I get a feeling like excitement or that I would enjoy it... I'm totally horrified and anxious again. It just won't stop.. The worst is the feeling I get when I see a good-looking women in tv (or when she's dressed sexy): There is a "feeling" showing up that it would be the best to do something with here in a sexual way. And I absolutely hate these feelings. I hate them so much I can't tell you. It's like a torture for me and in the moment I test and imagine this scenes in my head I'm totally unhappy and look sad and tortured as well... Do i have to accept the feelings? And say okay let them be there they mean nothing because they torture me? Or is there a possibility that those feelings are true and I can't accept my hidden self? I don't know what to do right now. I want to have a boyfriend... The feelings for men feel pleasing. And I just want to forget the other one.

Hi Question,

First, all of the things you mentioned are good things to talk about during your next session with your therapist, okay? I know it can be very hard waiting from one appointment to the next, when you're feeling so distressed. But you did say she had given you some advice regarding how to cope. Remember the suggestions that were helpful and keep applying them.

Now, I suspect the "feeling" you keep referring to is probably an impulse or urge to act on the thoughts. Unwanted impulses and urges are another form of OCD obsessions; they can be very compelling and very distressing. And, I suspect, it's the "HOCD bully" in your mind telling you that you would enjoy acting on those urges, even though you know you wouldn't (if you would, you wouldn't feel horrified and anxious, right?).

As for your therapist saying you might be having homosexual fantasies - keep in mind, I don't know the context of that statement, but here are my thoughts on that: A "fantasy" essentially involves entertaining something in our mind. Although the idea of a "fantasy" is often meant as something desirable or pleasurable, we can also "fantasize" about bad things - things we don't want to happen. In that regard, most individuals with HOCD (if not all) have homosexual fantasies - in that they are picturing sexual situations and images in their mind that involve them with someone of the same sex. BUT, that doesn't mean the fantasy is pleasurable, or wanted, or something they remotely enjoy.

These "fantasies" are also often used by individuals with HOCD as a way of checking their reaction, in an attempt to confirm or disprove that they are gay.

So, in that regard, it's very normal with HOCD to have homosexual fantasies, but I think you are interpreting her statement as a sort of confirmation that you have genuine homosexual feelings and desires.

I think it's important for you to discuss how this statement impacted you in your next session. Now, maybe your therapist meant something different than what I stated above; I don't know because I don't know your therapist and wasn't part of that conversation. But that's my take on it.

I hope that helps!

One quick word of caution and something to really think about: You say you "keep telling" yourself that if you're anxious and tortured that means you can't have any desire for the same sex. But that's really another form of compulsive behavior - you're compulsively reassuring yourself by presenting "evidence" that you're straight. Reassurances, as you know by now, don't really work. At best, they provide fleeting relief.

The thing that you really need to learn is how to be OKAY with uncertainty - in this case, uncertainty about your sexual orientation. You don't need to be "100% sure" - that's not really the goal.

Now, the HOCD bully will likely jump in and say, "If you're not 100% certain that you're straight, then you MUST be gay!!" That's another lie. We don't have to be certain about something in order for it to be true.

There's a reason OCD is often referred to as the "doubting disorder"...

Today was a good day because everytime a thought or feeling came up I said to myself that it would be okay if I were a lesbian. And the anxiety diminished after a few seconds. Thank you for that. I will keep concentrate on it. I have to correct one thing what I said: i posted above: "I imagine sex with a women and my reaction to it. If I get a negative or neutral reaction I'm glad and pleased. And If I get a feeling like excitement or that I would enjoy it.." And what I meant was that it suddenly feels like I enjoy it in my mind or that it could be a fantasy but I don't want that or that there are suddenly some positive feelings showing up while imagine further, like when I imagine breasts that it would feel fine or exciting (in my mind) or stimulating touching them (now when I think normal about it i think it's disgusting. I hope that makes sense because everytime I'm trying to explain it,.. I don't find the right words to say. Does the hocd bully make me believe that I enjoy it right now when I imagine something? And how does this bully create those false feelings? It just interests me. Thank you again for the great advice.

Hello Dr. Lane. I'm happy to say that I'm really doing fine right now. I've discussed another issue with my therapist. She wanted to know why I haven't had a boyfriend so far... And the case is this: there's this young men (he's two years younger than me) who seems to be interested in me. But he is really shy. One day I was looking outside my window and saw him (because he sometimes delivers the post for some extra money). He was looking in my direction very often (he lives in the neighbourhood and knows where I live). The problem is that I'm not sure what I'm feeling right now. He's really cute and the first time we met I immediately thought: What a sweet guy! Afterwards I was thinking about him (not the whole day but quite frequently). But we don't see each other often. There was this festival in august we met again and I was happy to see him and was looking forward to talking to him. I recognized that he looked at me quite often. After that I dreamt about him three times and thought about him too. I really like him but don't have those butterflies in my stomach or get totally nervous when I see him walking on the other side of the street. It's just... that there's a sudden feeling in my belly (like a needle and getting a bit nervous afterwards... looking what he's doing)... Now I'm not sure because of my ocd... If I'm only wishing to be in love with this guy (as a proof for not being homo- or bisexual) or if I'm only imagine it,..and in reality it's not true. My mind blurs everything so I can't really say for sure. Is it possible that someone can imagine to be in love? I really would be thankful if you could help me and tell me what you think about it. Best wishes.

Hi Question,

I'm glad to hear that you're doing well! If you're already working with a therapist, I think it would be better for you to direct your questions about this guy (and your feelings for him) with her, rather than getting my input. This is exactly the type of issue to talk about in therapy! (And your therapist knows you, so her input would be far more valuable than mine at this point.)

Hello Dr. Lane,

it has been a while since I posted here the last time and I'm nearly at the end of my therapy. I really had a good time and I'm glad to say that I had approximately 4 weeks without any bothersome feelings or thoughts. Now in February there is another "hard" phase. I'm seeing my therapist not as often anymore and right now I have this problem... Two days ago it started with impulses to watch videos with women stripping and testing again. How I react and the impulses were strong and I gave up... I couldn't do anything against it. And because I know how OCD is I realised that it's not good what I'm doing but i just couldn't help myself. Then I realised I became aroused but I said to myself: Just let any feeling that arises come and then I thought about the feelings that could come,... like being aroused more and being attracted and suddenly I got this feeling to really wanting to imagine sth sexual; and the feeling that if I do that it would feel great,...and I got excited and nearly wanted to masturbate but there's another strong voice and inner blockade in me saying NO and I just can't get off to these thoughts or feelings. I can't and I don't want either.
And because I'm seeing my therapist next week and it's important to me what this is about I really need your help... Please help me.

Hi Question,

You've been in therapy for over a year now, so I would hope that you have learned strategies for how to manage these impulses when they occur; if not, then it seems you're not really "nearly at the end" of your therapy. I don't say that as a criticism. However, OCD is usually a life long disorder. Some people do overcome it completely, but for most, there will still be times when obsessions and compulsions start to creep in, so learning how to manage them is crucial.

If I understood the point of your post correctly, you want to know "what this is about". I have no way of answering that. Also, the answer may not be helpful even if your therapist can shed insight on the underlying issue.

One of the biggest issues for anyone with HOCD is that they tend to scrutinze and overanalyze everything (e.g. every thought, urge, groinal response, etc.) from the standpoint of whether or not it means they're gay. It seems you are still doing that.

Let's say you go ahead and masturbate to these thoughts / urges, and get off on them. Does that now mean you're gay? No. It doesn't necessarily mean anything. But it seems you're still very afraid that it "means" something about your sexual orientation (at least that's how I'm interpreting your post).

I don't know if you're working with a cognitive behavioral therapist or not (I don't think you ever specified). With CBT, one of the primary goals with HOCD is to learn to tolerate the uncertainty about your sexual orientation. It doesn't seem you've reached that point yet.

It may be that you need to go back to more frequent sessions if this is causing so much distress that you can't wait until next week to talk to your therapist. I highly recommend that you get very clear on how to handle the doubts, urges, "what ifs", etc. when they occur - because they will very likely continue to do so at times, even after therapy.

I wish I could offer something more helpful.